Interview with John - the male partner

The letter to John ran something like this:- “Dear Mr. Smith, Your wife has been to see me for help in the marital situation that has arisen between you. I think I could be of more help if I could have the opportunity of hearing how you feel about it. If you can manage to come for a talk I would be glad if you would make an appointment at some mutually suitable time. Yours faithfully,.”

John came quite willingly in due course. He looked a normal enough person as he came in and began to tell his story.

j. I appreciated your direct invitation to come, and I must say Mary seems more relaxed since she came to you. I’m worried about the whole situation too, and I suppose I’ve put my foot in it pretty badly at times, but I’m fed to the teeth with Mary’s attempts to dominate me, and to have everything her way. I’ve given up the attempt to make her realize that. Nothing I can say will ever convince her.

c. You feel you can’t call your soul your own?

j. That’s just about it. She was all right till the kids came, but since then I’ve been left out. All her attention goes to them, and the whole house has to revolve around them. She has worked out a rigid routine to the last detail, and nothing must ever interfere with it. She’s always complaining of being overworked, but I’m sure she makes most of the difficulties for herself. The house is always in a mess in spite of the routine, and there isn’t any comfort in it. It’s not a home any more, and if I try to do anything to tidy it up it’s always wrong. I never hear the end of it when she can’t find something I might have put away. I’m not supposed to know anything about running a house.

c. Everything has to be sacrificed for the children, and you and the home mean nothing, whatever you try to do about it?

j. Yes, and it’s not only in the house. I’ve got to work things at the office so that I never disturb the home routine. If I’m home even twenty minutes late I have to face a heavy cross examination about it. Even when I’m home on time Mary demands to know everything I’ve done, where I’ve been and who I’ve met, and I object to that on principle. But it makes no difference, and all I can do is to get behind the paper in self defense. It would serve her right if I didn’t come home till later and stayed and had a drink with the boys. But I don’t want to make any more barriers between us if I can help it.

c. You feel pretty fed up about it, but you’re trying to keep the relationship intact?

j. Yes, and I still have some glimmerings of hope that things might be improved; that’s why I’m here of course. But after our previous efforts I can’t say that I’m terribly optimistic. An uncle of Mary’s, who seems to think he’s an expert in these matters, came to see us some months ago, and gave me what he regarded as “a good talking to.” But he didn’t seem interested in how I felt about it, and in the end I told him that he didn’t know what he was talking about. But I suppose I can’t talk, because my mother had done much the same thing to Mary a bit earlier, and that hadn’t helped at all.

c. So you felt a bit skeptical about whether any outside person could help you?

j. I’m afraid I did, but I realize they were both a bit prejudiced. But we had two really genuine efforts to find a way through the trouble about a year ago without any lasting result. We talked it out better than we’ve ever been able to do since, and we agreed to let bygones be bygones and to try to make a fresh start on a better footing. But it looks as if Mary just can’t help organizing me and everything, and I can’t bear being organized; and the old tensions were on again within a few weeks. So I felt I had some reason to be a bit despairing about the prospects, until Mary decided to come to you. I must say I appreciate the way you’ve given me such a good hearing, but I can’t see yet how it can help us to a better relationship.

c. You’re still wondering how this sort of thing can help?

j. Yes, I’m afraid I am, but down deep I’m sure Mary is genuinely trying to work it out, and God knows I want to do it as long as I can keep some remnants of my personality. After all, we’re both reasonable people and I love Mary more than I can say, even though I know she must sometimes have her doubts about it. And I think she still loves me, in spite of all the rows.

c. You feel pretty sure then that there are some basic reasons for hope. Enough to carry on in some more sessions, so that we can explore the situation a little more deeply?

j. Yes, that seems reasonable, and I feel better for having got all those things off my chest. Would you like me to make another appointment?

c. Mary is coming again early next week, so perhaps you could come a few days later, and tell me a bit more about yourself and how you feel.

In this summary of the first interview with John, notice again how the counselor has picked out the feelings from John’s narrative, and shown acceptance of them. In this way he has gained John’s confidence and made the deeper explorations which will be necessary in the future interviews much more straightforward. So far neither John nor Mary has shown much realization of their own destructive attitudes, nor has either of them been able to see much light about ways of improving their relationship. But with good rapport between the counselor and each of them, the necessary foundation has been laid.

It is clear from their attitudes that John and Mary are each at heart reasonable people, with sound personality structures, but that they are each unable to fulfil their roles adequately in marriage because of uncritical assumptions, habitual attitudes and emotional needs which have brought them into conflict. They have made efforts to overcome the conflicts, but these have been superficial, and have left the deeper factors unrealized and uncorrected. While this was the case they were doomed to failure.

As they were unable to see their own false attitudes any criticism would only put them still more on the defensive, and even the best advice would generally be futile, because neither would be able to carry it out while the false attitudes were uncorrected. Here then are two good people, each hurt, bewildered and almost despairing, in deep and continuing conflict.

Tags: Counseling